Take the veil

On October 15 2006 · 7 Comments · In Diary

Aishah Azmi @copy; BBC Aishah Azmi’s insistence upon wearing the veil in front of male colleagues would be regarded as the behaviour of a mentally unstable person, if it were not for the fact that she is Muslim. The behaviour of a great many religious people is somehow excused on the grounds of their religiosity, and we might say that is beside the point, but there is only so much crap you can put up with. Most religions are evil, hypocritical, pernicious, unjust and irrational – why not tackle them head on?

The absurdity of wearing the veil is obvious, and moderate Muslims should be the first to agree with that – it is about subjugating women. The holy trinity of Judaism and its offshoots Christianity and Islam have all been hijacked by men, the scriptures being twisted and misinterpreted with one objective – to screw women over and keep them down. The Qur’an teaches that women should lower their gaze, it is true – in the same breath as it tells men to do exactly the same thing. That obviously didn’t get through to the Muslim men who walk in front of their Burqa-adorned women, wearing jeans and shirts, not a veil in sight. The hypocrisy is sickening.

The Qur’an passage that is causing all the stink is this one:

Qur’an 24:30-31
Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty:
That will make for greater purity for them:
And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty;
That they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof;
That they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty
Except to their husbands their fathers their husbands’ fathers
Their sons their husbands’ sons
Their brothers or their brothers’ sons or
Their sisters’ sons or their women or
The slaves whom their right hands possess or
Male servants free of physical needs or
Small children who have no sense of the shame of sex;
And that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments.
And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah that ye may attain Bliss.

So the passage above says that men should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, and then goes a bit further to say that women should, basically, cover up their bosoms. There’s no mention of covering their faces, but scripture is all about interpretation isn’t it?

The Taliban continue to fight coalition forces in Afghanistan, and would happily come back, reinstate Sharia law, and bury adulterous men and women up to their waists before stoning them to death. And these stupid women still want to wear the veil? Do they support death by stoning, or another Muslim punishment, twenty-five lashes of the whip and a year’s solitary confinement?

So, it’s back to the mental instability question, because if you wear the veil, you surely have to believe in stoning and lashes – and who in their right mind would?

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Tagged with: religion

http://theanswers42.blogspot.com/ Margaret

The monotheistic religions haven’t been hijacked by men – they always were patriarchal. The pre-Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions in the Middle East were primarily matriarchal.
NL

…and, and, she took off her veil for her interview WITH A MAN! Down south you don’t see these people so much but up here in W.Yorks I see them all the time. It sometimes makes you jump when a fully masked person comes into your view. I think the French have got it pretty spot on with their no display of religious beliefs allowed in the public services, but then there is no way we can do that as we still don’t have a separation of church and state. The sad thing is that no one cared when Muslim women just wore head scarves. They’ve increased so called Islamaphobia on themselves with this extremist dress code. If I was to walk around with a mask on saying "fuck off Islam" I’d probably get thrown in jail. The full Burka is essentially saying "fuck off everyone". I’m tired of talking about muslims as we’re just increasing their paranoia but seriously, how did this happen?
http://www.terriblenoise.com RIch

Hi,

I have been reading your site and enjoying the posts and have an opinion on this post in particular – I hope you don’t mind a stranger making a comment.

I am a white male who has worked in an almost totally muslim community for about 14 years. I work with young children and talk with muslim women who wear the veil every day.

I think this is a complicated issue, and not one that can be seen totally in terms of black and white. My personal point of view is that I feel I should respect the wishes of the individual – meaning that if a woman chooses to wear the veil that choice should not be ridiculed. As with every culture and way of life, there are men and women who hurt and kill each other, and many people who use religion or other means to repress or manipulate other people whether they are men or women. To say that Islam is totally to blame is too simplictic. I guess there are men who use the teachings of Islam to repress women, but then there are men who use violence, or a woman’s insecurities or any number of other means. I think people in Britain should be dealing with the way things are, rather than the way each individual thinks things should be, from their own agnostic/secular/educated background, or whatever other point of view they are coming from.

I believe that we should be trying to understand each other and doing everything in our power to integrate with each other. If one religion or way of life finds this more difficult because of religious dogma, we need to go the extra mile to meet them closer to their own point of view. I mention my experience of being in a muslim community because I see day-to-day that integration and appreciation of each other’s beliefs is possible – it happens day in day out where I work, which is a standard, normal community which, I imagine, has a range of liberal people, religious people and devout people etc. They talk to me wearing the veil, and I talk to them, as a western male – there is no problem. Some women wear a veil, some don’t.

The very much bigger issue is, how far religious pressure or cultural pressure comes to bear on the women in the community, but what I think is that this can only be tackled by integration and acceptance of Islamic beliefs rather than saying how mad they are or how evil they are, or how they should fit in with the way ‘we’ do things. The only way to influence the community is for different ethnic and religious groups to talk more and break down the barriers between them.

I was at work when the 9/11 news broke. We put on the TVs and white British and Pakistan, Saudia Arabian, Yemmenite, Somali and Bangladeshi muslims were all shocked by it – and talked about it. I dare say there were people who privately, or publicly supported what happened, but I did not come accross the tiniest indication of such support.

I am not talking about reading about a religion, or seeing a few ‘strange looking’ muslim women in the street, but day to day contact with people who are practicing muslims, to a greater or lesser degree. I think many people have swallowed the media depiction of muslims in Britain which is basically in a word, wrong.

Hope you don’t mind me leaving my point of view here – I just have personal experience of this and feel quite strongly about it.
NL

Rich I accept your laid back, live & let live point of view, in fact I used to have the same stance myself. The problem is this – the religious people don’t reciprocate. They want to pick and choose the best bits of our culture and freedoms and impose the worst bits of theirs on us. They won’t enter into a balanced debate or consider any kind of compromise with their own behaviour. We have seen that any time anyone tries to debate issues in Islam they are branded Islamaphobic and threatened with a Jihad. Fundamental Islam is a primative religion of violence and bigotry, much like most religions. I can tolerate moderate following of religion if it doesn’t affect me but this extreme orthodox stuff that is going on now isn’t compatible with a modern developed society like the UK.
http://www.spikydog.com/ Nathan

Hi Rich – I respect your point of view, and how articulately you have expressed it (without wishing to sound condescending). I haven’t replied before now as your comments have made me think – and it’s always good to have your opinions questioned. I have also worked (albeit briefly) with Muslim girls, though they were not wearing the full veil (their faces were not covered) and got on perfectly naturally with them. I will happily discuss matters of faith and religion with anybody, and I offer anybody all of the respect that they deserve as individuals and fellow human beings. I don’t see this is a black-and-white issue either, it’s a shame if you got that impression.

Wearing the full veil however is still absurd to me. If a Christian bride walked down a busy street with her veil covering her eyes, people would think she was disturbed, or on her hen night. Nuns in wimples are amusing to most people, figures of erotic mystery to some. The fact that Muslim women wear the veil is nevertheless something I am expected to respect unquestioningly, even though I do not share their faith, and with even a limited understanding of history, the Qu’ran, and the politics of the Hijab, the reasons for their wearing the veil are more questionable and misguided, especially because of the barrier to communication and integration that they represent in our society.

You said “people in Britain should be dealing with things the way they are, rather than the way each individual thinks things should be, from their own agnostic/secular/educated background, or whatever other point of view they are coming from” – I don’t agree. As human beings, we absolutely do not have to deal with things the way they are – that implies that there is no room for change or improvement in our lives and our society, and no way in which our individual points of view are worth anything, regardless of what we encounter. I’m sure I’m misinterpreting what you said, but I’m sure that is a sentiment you can agree with. Europe is a secular society, and I am an atheist – so I absolutely reserve the right to question aspects of religion I find objectionable. Like I said, I will respect the individual, but I don’t feel obliged to extend that respect to their religion. The question about the wearing of the veil is almost irrelevant when the issue for me is the right to ask that question in the first place. The veil is symbolic of the hypocrisy of religion and the repression of women, and as diplomatically as you suggest that this can be blamed on other things, I still think it is fair to say that religion is the main offender.

I have been involved in a multi-faith forum where a Muslim speaker openly made references to ‘Kafirs’ (unbelievers or infidels) and the very unpleasant fate that awaited them – was I not allowed to challenge that statement, something I found personally offensive, or does ‘going the extra mile’ still apply? Do we still need to ‘go the extra mile’ when we can’t even look someone in the eye, or when the slightest criticism of a religion incurs disproportionate anger and ‘hurt’? Sorry, I’m not sure we do. Like NL, I don’t see a huge amount of reciprocity.

You, and the community you work in, are very lucky to be enjoying such harmonious relations (despite the veil, which I cannot see as anything but a hindrance), and long may it continue – but I’m sure that that feeling of goodwill is not universal, and I’m as certain as ever that religion is overall a pernicious and divisive influence, not a uniting one – and the veil has, like it or not, become symbolic of that.
Nick T

The biggest problem that the hijab causes is that it interferes with communication. The major component of communication between people is non-verbal and the face is the most important part of this. With the hijab the face is almost completely obscured. Not only does this limit communication but it also unbalances it if the other person is not similarly attired.

~

Nick
http://www.spikydog.com/ Nathan

Indeed. I read this just the other day: http://tinyurl.com/yhm5vk

The hijab has recently been described as a ‘peripatetic ghetto’.